I've been fired - what do I do?

i wouldn't want to hire/work with you.

I would say that this blows but honestly, you probably had it coming to you. Hard lesson

In what to do going forward, It's a tossup because anyone can just call the firm where you worked at and find out what happened - especially if you go to the other top 4 banks. Maybe you should look outside banking (ie. trading, sales, research, etc) as they typicaly might not talk to bankers - or look at the buyside.

I guess you can go one of two ways - pretend that you quit (ie. too many hours, wanted your life bank) or admit that you were let go

You could also look at positions in the states.. (or asia) that might erase the problem completely by running away from it.

You can always go get your masters and start over again.

Best of luck..

Even sales & trading will call for previous refs. Most banks now use fairly sophisticated 3rd party providers for vetting new staff... I would have thought that you will find it astonishingly difficult to get hired anywhere worth working.

Banks are not legally allowed to write anything bad about me in a reference, only that I worked there for 8 months.

I really want to continue working with M&A, but like the post said, I need to justify why I left the previous top-5 m&a firm.

they can't legally bash you in a reference letter..but they can certainly tell the truth and in your case thats not a good thing. i think you should be upfront and honest (for once) in your job interviews about this whole episode and maybe you'll come across somebody sympathetic who sincerly believes you've learnt your lesson.

im ont even sure they can tell the truth...

Rather than try to use this employer at all for CV and such, just erase them from your past.

Then apply for other banks, with your correct credetials!!! And then make up a good story about what you have been doing for the past year. Maybe you tried to start up your own company or did frilance work, gets friends as references. You have the knowledge of Excel and you can talk a good story about the relevant skills, since you have actually worked at a bank but obviously don't tell them that.

Also 8 months is short, you can just make some date adjustments to cover it. I finished uni in October, after my masters thesis, but officially I graduated in March year after when all the papers had gone through.

Cheers

I have to disagree with this. You're taking a huge gamble that someone may find out about the past month and you'll get fired, again. In my opinion, you got yourself into this situation by lying and lying again is not a solution. If you get fired from two places for the same thing, it then becomes a fool me once shame on me, fool me twice...situation.

You have 8 months of solid experience under your belt from a very respectable bank. You'll definitely be dinged from a few places but you need to be able to stress how your experience makes up for a mistake you made in the past while blowing them away with your knowledge and personality. It might take a bunch of interviews, but once you find a bank willing to take you on, you'll know you have nothing to worry about and the incident is in your past.

Like said above, worst case is you go back and get your MBA.

you're going to have to fight to get another job, and will pay a little bit by most likely having to take a step down(but you might get lucky and get a sweet job). Go in with mentality that you've learned from your mistake and are willing to put in another two years at whatever job you get and that they have nothing to worry about regarding your character (think long-term, might be a little painful to the ego/work experience in the short-term)

reading your story scared the hell out of me.. i had roughly a 3.3 in college (3.4 when i got the job offer though) but put 3.6 on my resume and pulled a job with a bulge in NY. im in training right now and am praying that this isn't noticed. friends of mine had done similar things in the past and always told me nothing happened. yours is the first time ive ever heard of someone being caught... any suggestions, should i bring this up with anyone in the firm before they bring it up with me? or should i just go in and impress the hell out of them so that they feel im indispensable (yeah right)?? any help here would be great.. i know the community is small and everyone knows each other, so i would hope not to be blacklisted from the street.

have you guys heard of integrity?? jesus christ, you're cheating and taking positions from people who deserve them more. i hope you get caught.

I think you should go and tell HR right away about the discrepancy. That way you can get fired and they can hire me!

not sure how it works in england, but in the U.S., GPAs are generally on a scale of 4.0. are you saying that you said you had a 4.0 when u really had a 3.0? because if thats the case, its a blatant lie and you had it coming to you.. but im still surprised this happened 8 months into the job. best of luck moving forward, its a small world though so be careful.

and for the second cheater, as far as GPAs are concerned in general, ive heard of leeways of up to 0.4 in GPAs with people (saying u had a 3.5 when u had a 3.1, etc) if the people seem determined to work hard and show initiative. so a 3.4 to a 3.6 isnt the end of the world, and shouldnt lead to your being fired (but you may have some serious explaining to do).

How good are these "deserving" candidates if they can't get the job in the first place? If GPAs are as good of an indicator that these recruiters believe then the person with genuinely high marks should win out every time.

I have to admit that I'm tempted to inflate my gpa upward (although .4 is way too much) in order to score some attention from the recruiters cause it's so f'ing competitive.

Most banks will only give you a reference that says 'X worked here from y to z' but if you were terminated for cause, they will say so on the reference letter. I've seen it.

the point is they are right on the line and deserve a fair chance without people lying about their gpa. i can't believe people think it's ok to do that. it's disgraceful, and no amount of cutthroat competition for jobs makes it ok.

Sorry Yogesh I will let you comment for yourself but Iwould say B to A is blatant, major difference, I think you agree.

With GPA over a large number of subjects there is some rounding, there is the comment about having had it at the time, if filled online, or being correct at the time, if in CV/resume. Perhaps with GPA it could be argued that courses taken beyond the minimum requirement could be taken out, otherwise you punish your GPA for your desire to learn.

It is not lying, it is a matter of definition, sometimes.

Cheers

how can you argue that some courses can be taken out of your gpa? your gpa is your gpa, and is listed on your transcript. i can understand if you want to also list a higher "major" gpa, which is fine. but the idea that you can customize your gpa to exclude the courses you did worse in is not a matter of definition, it is lying. if the school took it into account for your gpa, then it can't be excluded.

just my opinion (i guess). are there really no other people who condemn this sort of behavior?

Hm, didn't know GPa was on the transcript. I made my own transcript in photoshop, just kidding. Seriously though if GPA is on the transcript then there isn't really any wiggle room there.

Regarding more qualified candidate not getting the job they desreve and so on I don't buy it. In my experience your CV gets you the interview, partly, after that you get the job based on your interview performance.

Would you also require people to be honest about their level of interest in banking as a long term career, otherwise people with a true interest would be at a disadvantage compared to people who are just really good at convincing interviewers about their interest, when, in fact, they just want the money.

Cheers

that's an unfair comparison, GPA is the universal sign of academic achievement, and certainly should be held to a higher standard than some throwaway "fit" interview question, which may not have a hard and fast answer to begin with.

and don't some banks have a hard limit on how many interviews they do at a particular target school? if so, clearly the borderline candidate could be passed over for the interview and never get a chance to prove himself.

You are right GPA and open interview question are very different. At the same time the best candidate is the one that gets the job, by definition. And I am not saying that you should lie, I never do, just that you have to look at recruitment and reaching your goals holistically, and that you have to be resourceful to get what you want.

i agree, being resourceful is key, especially if not at a target school. obviously you have to sell yourself by playing down negative aspects. I would however take issue with the idea that the best candidate is always the one who gets the job. that's simply not true; if my uncle is an MD at the company, I get the job regardless of my merit. certainly good fortune is a factor in this as well.

Well, the recruiter can take the pile of applications, split it in half, dump half in the garbage can and start going through apps on the basis that 1, half the pile will contain an adequate candidate, and 2, at this firm we don't like people who are unlucky!

My point is that since there is not one measure for candidate evaluation, or finding THE best candidate, the concept becomes very abstract. So another way of looking at it is that the best candidate was the one who got the job. Most guys uncle is not an MD and you do have to be at the right place at the right time, it is a big part of life, it is why networking is so important.

This thread sickens me. You should be seriously be ashamed of this.

It's a dawg eat dawg world.

1. Be honest with youself and stop defending your actions - e.g. "My boss told me that I made a fool out of him, I did NOTHING of the sort" - of course, you did - he treated you like an honest applicant when you knew you weren't.
2. Get professional advice from an HR consulting firm. Be honest with them. Maybe they can advise on the best way forward. It will cost you, but no more than you deserve.
3. General advice - try a little realism: think about the potential consequences of your actions and don't rely on wishful thinking - "I couldn't believe my luck! They only did random spot checks, nothing in detail, for which I was initially relieved." It wasn't luck, it was dishonesty. Employers aren't always as dumb as you would like to believe.

I truly, TRULY hope that this thread is making it to the recruiters/HR Departments at banks throughout the country. It certainly just made it to mine. I assure you that in the short-term, now that these 'adjustments' have been made public all firms will hold resumes up to transcripts and fire if there are discrepancies.

It is absolutley deplorable that you would so blatantly lie and then be stunned when you're canned and black-balled in the industry. I can assure you that this thread has guaranteed that I, and any firm I work for in the future, will specifically check for this.

Why not get the job the old fashioned way, bust your ass in college and dominate your interviews? Good luck at McDonald's, and yes, I will have fries with that.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Agreed, earn it you losers.
It's a dawg eat dawg world.

I think he was referring to the major GPA which consists of fewer classes that are easier to get higher grades in.

Agreed. Don't give this guy anymore advice, he's not worth it. Enjoy McDonalds shitbrick.

thing is that you're all are or want to be investment bankers (lying, cheating, and backstabbbing is at the heart of this business no matter what you tell yourself)

i dont think he needs to be told what he did is wrong as hes not a baby. and fwd'd this to your hr department is a joke..

anyways, what can he do to make amends and get a job that he wants. 1. not lie again 2. creatively construct his story and make it into something worth hirable.

he clearly was able to do the work at an ibank. everyone here is kidding themselves if you think finance is difficult. literally anybody can do this stuff.. its at most addition and multiplication.

we could tell him whaqt he did is wrong but where is that going to get him. i dunno.

well it was a little offensive how obvious it was that he wasn't sorry that he lied, only sorry he got caught. I don't see how people can just offer advice without expressing disgust at the action in the first place. i'm not in the industry (yet) but if this is the norm I guess I have a lot to learn.

you will get used to your MD lying about valuation, leverage, and doing whatever else it takes to get a deal. You will also see how much deceiving and backstabbing goes on in the industry. Some people don't mind that or the hours, and succeed, most leave

Suggestions are much appreciated...however the problem I face is people asking me the question, 'why have you decided to dump a top-tier M&A firm to work in M&A for us, even though the hours will most likely be the same and dealflow of less quality?' - I have been racking my brains trying to come up with an answer to this, can anyone help?

I AM SORRY for what I did - but I know of at least 2 others in my graduate class who have seemingly gotten away with it - why should I suffer along? I am mulling whether to send an anonymous letter to HR - I never liked those guys anyways.

it just doesn't make it right man. the fact that you want to rat out these other people just speaks volumes of you character as well. i just have the uneasy feeling that the only reason you ARE sorry is bc you are out of the job. blatant lying on your resume is inexcusable...i think you need to gain some self-introspection.

how could you come to a point in your life where you felt it necessary to cheat on your resume? how did you rationalize it to yourself?

where is the integrity? do your parents know what happened? did they teach you the importance of honesty when you were a kid? why was this necessary?...if you got into a top bank, couldn't you have put your real GPA down and gotten at least into a MM? sure it might have taken more work, but at least you wouldn't be where you are now. but that's besides the point...you are sorry, but do you truly understand what you did was wrong? until then, you're a lost cause in my book and not many people are going to want to work w you.

Go on a long trip

thats just wrong man. not only does this show you have no morals/ethics but it is totally illogical. of course they were going to find out ... they contact references and your school send official transcripts, etc.

Play poker

This guy and this thread is ridiculous. Don't lie and bad things won't happen.

I'm surprised it took them so long to discover the discrepancy.

If Chung is King can land back on his feet, you can too

dont sweat it

Sick...

Its fantastic to see how people respond when the situation doesn't directly affect them - but if you were in my shoes last year, facing the prospect of going jobless / or a job in accounting/backoffice etc...you would have perhaps had an iota of understanding in what I did.

It is unacceptable, fair enough, but I need to look forward now.

I have various interviews coming up for 2nd year Analyst positions through recruitment agencies. I have not lied as much as I did so before, I have only upgraded Maths and Economics from B to A (which means GPA 3.0 to 3.6) - otherwise I know I don't stand a chance.

Thanks,
Y

why not... just not put your GPA on your resume??? that way your not outright lying about it. maybe it will never come up?

this is what i did and eventually someone will not care about it. sure, didnt get some jobs because whten tehy asked they didnt like the answer but i knew that would happen going in. plus it gave me a chance to "explain" what happened instead of them just seeing a number.

congratulations! now you're only lying about the most important courses instead of all the courses. believe me, I've been in your "position" and was still able to get a job with a subpar gpa. you are a disgrace.

You are such a tool seriously. I hope you are just joking crying about not being able to find a job when its your fault for not trying harder. Now lying to get another job you are trash. And a B to A is 3.0 to 4.0 you jackass.
It's a dawg eat dawg world.

Yo, Yogesh
Why don't you tell them your previous employer didn't meet your high ethical standards?

Like if HR finds out u put a 3.8 instead of 3.6 or 3.6 for 3.4, will they do something JUST for that?

Yogesh, you seemed to have been untruthful about both ur gpa and work experience. How did they check the work experience, btw?

3.0 to 3.6? Dude, that is a significant difference. Anything more than rounding up, is in my opinion dishonest.